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Modding Generals 2: will it be possible?
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:08 am    Post subject:   Modding Generals 2: will it be possible?
Subject description: PPM's support to Generals 2 will be restricted due to complexity of Frostbite 2 engine..
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EA will still announce Generals 2 and we are already going to try to figure out how to modify the game. So far, we've discovered through official sources (features and system requirements posted at Origin) that Generals 2 will use the Frostbite 2 engine, which is also used in games such as Battlefield 3 and Need for Speed: The Run.

Now, you must be wondering... are these games moddable?

Here's the answer for Battlefield 3:

Quote:
GameStar: Will there be modding tools?
Söderlund: Well, as of now, we are not going to make any modding tools, no.

GameStar: Okay, why?
Söderlund: Because if you look at the Frostbite engine, and how complex it is, it’s going to be very difficult for people to mod the game, because of the nature of the set up of levels, of the destruction and all those things… it’s quite tricky. So we think it’s going to be too big of a challenge for people to make a mod.



And Battlefield 3 modders are still desesperately trying to make DICE change their mind about it.

Regarding Need for Speed: The Run, I haven't found anything about modding the game.

The old versions of the Frostbite engine were even worse for modding, according to the wikipedia snippet below:

Quote:
Frostbite 1.5 games are built using a complicated chain of compilers, version control and distributed caches, making it very difficult to install to a new environment: it took a week for one DICE employee to set the system up outside the company's offices.[13]

Frostbite 2 is said to greatly improve this "flaky" pipeline, and DICE has not ruled out the feasibility of releasing mod tools for it.



And there is something else that deserves mention: bye bye Worldbuilder. We'll have to download paid maps from EA. At least, this is what they said at Origin:

Quote:
Ever-Evolving ExperienceEnhance your game with an expanding array of downloadable content. From maps and units to factions, campaigns, and more, the fight against terrorism is deeper than ever.



So, yea, we'd better keep modding Generals 1 for now. At least that game is properly moddable.

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OmegaBolt
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus if there is going to be DLC I can't imagine EA taking kindly to modders fiddling with their content, assuming all games stay up to date to allow compatibility.
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4StarGeneral
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methinks CNC3/RA3 is the last stand on modding. But considering how EA is just going to f*ck up again anyways, I'm cool with that.

Also, running with Origin = Not buying it.
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Volgin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its Frostbite, there will be no modding.
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Rico
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Joined: 01 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there goes my interest in the game, EA you've set a new record, I've been turned off by your games before but never the same day one's been announced.
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gufu
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Joined: 22 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering that they didn't allow for BF3 mods, it's unlikely that they will create an SDK for General 2.

Now, let's hope that General's 2 won't have a multiplayer browser like BF3 one.

Quote:
• Ever-Evolving Experience — Enhance your game with an expanding array of downloadable content. From maps and units to factions, campaigns, and more, the fight against terrorism is deeper than ever.


DLC units, campaigns, and maps for an RTS? Shit's gonna hit the fan.
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TiberFCSL
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Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe it. I don't like any Generals crap, but there are awesome mods for Generals like TD Redux, so my only interest in this new game is the mods, and now, they tell us it can't be modded????????
Almost every C&C game has been moddable and that's what keep them alive for decades, and now this???????

It can't be worse. EA f*cked up everything again...
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Volgin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh don't blame the C&C devs, blame the assholes at DICE who refuse to release modding tools for their precious engine.
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gufu
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volgin wrote:
Uh don't blame the C&C devs, blame the assholes at DICE who refuse to release modding tools for their precious engine.


Moding tools are nothing when the concept of cost-effective DLCs is in stake.
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Darkstorm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DLC, at least units or maps, better be free or I'm not likely to even try it. I hate being denied units or factions because I don't pay for DLC. This is crap.
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TiberFCSL
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Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volgin, first time you talk to me nicely Smile And yes, you're totally right about DICE.
I guess, we all have the same feelings against this new C&C Sad
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Cranium
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone, somewhere, will find a way to mod this thing. Might take some time, but I know someone "even if it's just adding new units" will attempt to make an sdk or importer/exporter something.

Other than that, I know how alot of you feel about this game, but I'm looking forward to Generals 2.
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Regulus
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can't say that I am surprised, but I agree, that this is the first time that I have ever flat out hated a CnC game upon its announcement. I gave CnC 4 somewhat of a chance. At least it tried to be somewhat original with the Mobile War Factory concept.
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Rico
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volgin wrote:
Uh don't blame the C&C devs, blame the assholes at DICE who refuse to release modding tools for their precious engine.

They chose the engine knowing it had no modding tools instead of upgrading the (rather good) SAGE engine. So yes it is the devs we can thank for this.
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Orac
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda want to like this game, but it is a challenge. A lack of modding support and what sounds like plans for a stream of pay-for-the-rest-of-your-game DLC is not appetising.

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Frontlines
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orac wrote:
I kinda want to like this game, but it is a challenge. A lack of modding support and what sounds like plans for a stream of pay-for-the-rest-of-your-game DLC is not appetising.


I'm with Orac on this one.

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You people are stupid. God.
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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FurryQueen wrote:
You people are stupid. God.


This.

Considering how the programming of games becomes ever increasingly complicated, modders will have to adjust and actually learn more and more about programming themselves. You can't just expect for a modding tool to land before your nose; you have to create it. Westwood only ever gave us mapping editors. Everything else was created by fans.
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Volgin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waaah we need the devs to make the tools for us!
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Ordosherrscher
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
FurryQueen wrote:
You people are stupid. God.


This.

Considering how the programming of games becomes ever increasingly complicated, modders will have to adjust and actually learn more and more about programming themselves. You can't just expect for a modding tool to land before your nose; you have to create it. Westwood only ever gave us mapping editors. Everything else was created by fans.

mind, though, that it is in their interest having their games modded. Simply because they live a lot longer with mods. . .
OK, if you want to make it online-bound it won't be possible to unite it, but nonetheless - modding keeps a game alive.
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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
FurryQueen wrote:
You people are stupid. God.


This.

Considering how the programming of games becomes ever increasingly complicated, modders will have to adjust and actually learn more and more about programming themselves. You can't just expect for a modding tool to land before your nose; you have to create it. Westwood only ever gave us mapping editors. Everything else was created by fans.

Sums it up pretty much. I just love the reactions here that they already will hate the game because it will most likely not have modding tools. Are all games who don't support modding bad in your eyes then? Give them a break, it's more then a year until 2013, and stuff can change...
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Volgin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know why everybody thinks C&C modding is so big o f a highpoint for EA to care about. the C&C modding community is negligible compared to other communities built around modding. The hub of the community is around competition (like it or not, we're not the 99%). This isn't like Source games where modding became king and MADE great hits of tomorrow.

Then again source modders were relatively original... C&C modding seems to focus on sticking to the shallow end of the pool and remaining with the stock factions and concepts.
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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ITT: People display complete ignorance of how a business works. The primary function of a "for profit" corporation is exactly that: Profit. It is therefore expected for the corporation to act in a way that guarantees greater profit.

The question is:
Which is more profitable?
-Don't develop modding tools; focus those man and equipment hours on stuff that will serve the 99.5% that doesn't give a shit about modding.
-Develop modding tools, giving at best 0.5% of the consumer base that actively mods satisfaction.
Obviously the former is the better choice.

Modding tools are released usually because:
-It doesn't have much of an impact on the bottom line: See IdTech (and its derivative: Source) and Unreal engines, which were built with modding in mind.
-The game engine is simple; the requirements of making a modding SDK are very small and it isn't cost intensive

And the unfortunate reality is:
-IdTech, Source and Unreal are stand outs. It isn't a requirement to build an engine with modding in mind and it depends on the employees.
-Frostbite 2 is extremely complex as noted by developers. Frankly I found the multi-minute long compile phase in RA3 to be unbearable enough when all I wanted to do is see what a couple minor tweaks did. What they have described sounds positively nightmarish.
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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ordosherrscher wrote:

mind, though, that it is in their interest having their games modded. Simply because they live a lot longer with mods. . .
OK, if you want to make it online-bound it won't be possible to unite it, but nonetheless - modding keeps a game alive.


So wrong, and thanks to EVA-251 and Carno, I don't even have to explain why.
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Ordosherrscher
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really depends.
You can't deny that many games are living just because there are Mods for it.
I don't say they have to focus on modding, but still, even allowing such tiny thing as a ini where you can modify some values will be increase the interest. If you can add some new things, its even more noticiable.
Making a game without even have the option for mods in vision, well, is just a wrong decision. I played plenty games. And some of them I do still play. Guess what, which ones?
I even did buy TW and KW just because there are good mods for it. I wouldn't if there wouldn't have been mods for them around.
You don't have to spent a lot of recources. But if youre able to allow modding, hell, do it.
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m7
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generals 2 looks cool as ztype. I'm so excited.
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Volgin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It really depends.
You can't deny that many games are living just because there are Mods for it.


Counter-Strike and Star Craft 1 beg to differ. 1.6 has had no major changes to it since... it came out. Many, many years ago. 1.6 didn't need modifications to thrive, in fact, I'd bet that a large number of the most popular maps played online are official maps like Dust.

GOOD games don't need mod support to survive.


Quote:
Making a game without even have the option for mods in vision, well, is just a wrong decision. I played plenty games. And some of them I do still play. Guess what, which ones?


You're on a forum for a franchise that was made by a company which generally hated modding and made their games rather inaccessible. The only official map-making utility made (RA95's) was so extremely limited and gimped that fans had to make their own.
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Orac
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But the fact that the game was created in the first place implies that some variety of toolset was employed.
I fail to see what aspect of game/mod development has actually become more complex in the past decade. The variety of file types, number of files themselves, scope of the config files, and versatility/scale of the engines have certainly increased, but that shouldn't make it impossible to alter them.

With each iteration of C&C the scale of the engine has increased, one of the more jarring jumps being the introduction of SAGE. In the end, though, modding Renegade, Generals, TW, or RA3 have all been in process a similar fare to that of the previous games. Assets are created, they are declared in their place in the relevant configuration file and all their attributes are detailed. The tools are for the most part the same in function as the ones used to create the initial game (which I assume also needed its assets created and exported to w3d or w3x or whatever, which I assume also needed its mixes or bigs read and written, and which I assume underwent numerous edits to the inis or xml to balance units against one another).

If the problem is the "nature of the set up of the levels", does that imply that they will be heavily scripted or simply that there will be such a large number of variables involved that only someone with significant spare time could be bothered? Either way the very fact that there are underlying rules by which the game functions means that modding should not have been made impossible by the advancing complexity of the engine.

So while modding may matter ztype all to a developer, I don't see why it should be a technical impossibility.

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m7 wrote:
Generals 2 looks cool as ztype. I'm so excited.

Me too, except for the Origin thing. But by then, we'll have plenty of methods to stop it from doing EA's bidding.
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volgin wrote:
Quote:
It really depends.
You can't deny that many games are living just because there are Mods for it.


Counter-Strike and Star Craft 1 beg to differ. 1.6 has had no major changes to it since... it came out. Many, many years ago. 1.6 didn't need modifications to thrive, in fact, I'd bet that a large number of the most popular maps played online are official maps like Dust.

GOOD games don't need mod support to survive.


So you try to degrade modding by listing a mod and a Blizzard game which had the first AoS-styled gameplay in history?! Certainly, you're right. It's just life's tricks that the former became a stand-alone game and the latter upgraded it's engine and shaped into DotA.

Blizzard games were always map-modded, y'know (excluding Diablo 2).
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DavyCrockett
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I don't care about modding Generals 2, this here sounds like you'll get only half the game when buying it and will have to buy the rest as expensive DLC, if you'll want to have the whole game.

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does everyone have the wrong idea about DLC? You people are the biggest idiots on the planet.
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Orac
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Find me a case where DLCs marketed in that particular manner have been exclusively free?

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DLC isn't meant to be free, that's the entire ztyping point. Nobody forces you buy a DLC pack. It's entirely voluntary.

Why does everyone bitch about DLC when there are many cases that it's like a goddamn expansion pack to the original game? Nobody whined and bitched and moaned about expansion packs back in the day. Why start bitching about essentially the same thing now?

Oh right, you're all spoiled rotten prats. I forgot, gotta keep that in mind.
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Orac
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I browse through the Steam store I notice these interesting things for Dawn of War 2.
Retribution, actually.
Ooh? is that the Tau? Woo! I could really go for some Tau in Retribution.
Wait... So that's just one unit? And in only one game mode? And you want me to pay you $10.00USD for it?
No. That's ridiculous. $10.00USD bought me the entire Tau faction in the previous game. And another faction besides. The value was so tangible that you couldn't even cut it with a knife. You'd be lucky to get through it with a power sword.

"Two new playable races. Take control of the Tau Empire and Necrons as you unleash massive carnage across the frontlines of battle"
Proclaims the back of the Dark Crusade box - That is an expansion pack. 2 New races, 7 campaigns, 12 further MP maps (OK, so this is no where near a typical xpack, where 1 race and 1 campaign might be more reasonable to expect). I was enticed to buy the original game because the expansion pack looked like a lot of fun.

DLC doesn't do that, it doesn't entice players to that sort of extent. This might be the reason for DLC being so usually gimmick based or just plainly content recycled from previous titles. The cost always seems to me to be greater than the reward - a new unit... Yay!

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Regulus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about an unequal content to cost ratio. Expansion packs are guilty of this, but it certainly wasn't in your face.
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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See my point where I said nobody makes you get a damn thing. There's a reason publishers and developers go with DLC content they way they do. Has a lot to do with making money to... get this... make more ztyping games. Again, you people bitch too much.
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Regulus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, nobody makes the overprice their DLC either. Get this, if you price it right, people are more likely to buy it! Holy ztyping shit.
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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think ten dollars for a DLC is unreasonable.
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Regulus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, if you got the cash, super. $10 for the amount of time that it took for one unit to be made sure seems like a raepage to me.
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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think it's unreasonable, do what I do: don't ztyping buy it.
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Orac
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I don't ztyping buy it I miss out on a part of the game I already ztyping bought.

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No you don't, unless the game is poorly designed.
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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orac wrote:
But the fact that the game was created in the first place implies that some variety of toolset was employed.
I fail to see what aspect of game/mod development has actually become more complex in the past decade. The variety of file types, number of files themselves, scope of the config files, and versatility/scale of the engines have certainly increased, but that shouldn't make it impossible to alter them.

With each iteration of C&C the scale of the engine has increased, one of the more jarring jumps being the introduction of SAGE. In the end, though, modding Renegade, Generals, TW, or RA3 have all been in process a similar fare to that of the previous games.

You miss the point entirely.

First, CNC modding has not become more complex because as you said, it's SAGE. Same damn engine, with the biggest change being from Gen to CNC-3 with the change to compiled program data.

Second, Renegade modding is ztyping complex. You should check in with the APB guys. Do you know how much hell it is to simply adjust the damage or range of a single thing in Ren? There are no XMLs or uncompiled plain-text files for you to edit.

Third, it isn't about technical impossibility. It's about the bottom-line and time spent. Let's get real here: modders are a tiny minority. Is it worth the time and money to support the say, 500-1000 people in this community that mod? No. Could the programmers be doing something more useful? Yes.
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Iran
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 23 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Err to change the damage or range on a unit on the Renegade W3D engine you simple open the unit's presets in LevelEdit and modifiy the range and damage settings, although for actual damage splash also gets calculated in the mix and multipliers are read from armor.ini.

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Volgin
Commander


Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And we all remember how well LevelEdit works...
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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iran wrote:
Err to change the damage or range on a unit on the Renegade W3D engine you simple open the unit's presets in LevelEdit and modifiy the range and damage settings, although for actual damage splash also gets calculated in the mix and multipliers are read from armor.ini.

I've used LevelEdit, alright? Maybe complex wasn't the right word, but rather time-consuming and tedious to test and implement minor changes.

I get the impression that half of APB's balance woes are because LevelEdit doesn't support "fine-tuning" and they have to wing it, lest they want to spend every moment they are awake going through the process.
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Graion Dilach
General


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FurryQueen wrote:
DLC isn't meant to be free, that's the entire ztyping point. Nobody forces you buy a DLC pack. It's entirely voluntary.

Why does everyone bitch about DLC when there are many cases that it's like a goddamn expansion pack to the original game? Nobody whined and bitched and moaned about expansion packs back in the day. Why start bitching about essentially the same thing now?

Oh right, you're all spoiled rotten prats. I forgot, gotta keep that in mind.


This is nonsense. People usually bitch about DLC because many times
a, the DLC content is already within the main game and the DLC itself is just an unlocking code (Soul Calibur 4, Marvel vs Capcom 3)
b, DLC has no physical form. People bitched about credit cards back at the day as well.

I usually met the former... and that's why I dislike DLC. When the game is being worked on, the developers should concentrate to that, and not working on some later-revealed crappy DLC as an additional way to milk the gamers.

Expansion packs were always expansion packs since work started on them AFTER the main game hit the market, not during them.
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Death Cultist
Scorpion Sniper


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FurryQueen wrote:
Oh right, you're all spoiled rotten prats. I forgot, gotta keep that in mind.


Chill out mate, you'll live longer.

Anyway.

I don't get the fuss about the modding tools, I always thought players and fans generally figured it out on their own eventually and had at it, you can't stop a determined bunch of people. As someone said, TS only had a map editor and look what people eventually figured out, granted it's nowhere near as complicated but still.
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m7
Commander


Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DLC is rarely done right. Gears 3 did it properly, however. And it's fair to note a few extra points about it.

1.) For online gaming on consoles, the companies in charge can impose limits on release dates. Gears of War 3's first DLC had to wait for Microsoft to say it could be put up for market. It was a small add-on, but it added stuff that big fans would be into. Those aforementioned companies can also mandate prices for the released content, which is something I've seen articles on in regards to Xbox Live. It's not always the studio decision for the release date, cost, or amount of DLC released.

2.) DLC can be free. A few weeks after the Horde Command Pack was released (the aforementioned DLC in example 1) the Versus Map Booster Pack was released. 5 free maps, 3 new ones and 2 of the maps from the Horde Command Pack were given away for players to enjoy. The maps from the Horde Command Pack were previously limited to Horde, and I assume that the pack itself didn't do too well.

3.) DLC can be good. The next installation of Gears 3 DLC will be slam-packed full of content. An entire mini-campaign NOT crammed into the story arch, new maps, game modes, and weapons are also going to be included. New online characters will be given for both sides, and I'm sure there's more that hasn't even been mentioned yet. Easily worth the money that will be charged for it.

4.) DLC can be cheap. If you bought the Gears of War 3 'Season Pass' for US$29.99 you'll get 5 DLC packs for the game as they come out. Roughly, you're paying less than half by buying into it early. And you'll have all the cool stuff that comes in the DLCs.

Obviously, not every company does this good of a job of making a worthwhile return.

DLC might feel or seem gimmicky in comparison to the old expansions and PC gaming/modding in general, but video games are a high-dollar industry no matter how much they feel like an art to you. They're out to make money, and they know that hardcore fans will be interested in buying all the DLC the day it comes out. Often DLC gets ridiculously cheap after it comes out, and sometimes it even gets released for free.

Quote:
While I don't care about modding Generals 2, this here sounds like you'll get only half the game when buying it and will have to buy the rest as expensive DLC, if you'll want to have the whole game.


Seems that's a terribly flawed concept. Sure, there may be scrapped units from development already on the disk, but the developers have a great opportunity to use new unit additions for helping the balance of the game. Total Annihilation is considered one of the greatest RTS games ever, yet IceDog (IIRC that's the studio) always released extra units JUST LIKE DLC would do. You paid for what you were getting (not every DLC is overly pricey) and it was always optional.

Everyone's taking the worst side of this and applying it to this game. Surely if EA's going to spend all this time resurrecting the franchise and giving one of their greatest studios the extra manpower/resources to create a quality game they aren't going to skimp out on the fans. Say what you want, but Bioware is an A+ studio who's produced some of the coolest and most immersive games I've ever played. Victory Studios is a branch underneath them, and would have to pass their quality checks.

EDIT: And no one try to respond to all of this and expect me to answer. I hate spending 40 minutes responding to a forum debate. I'm making my point here and leaving it, like it or not. I feel I needed to express it because of the closed-minded approach a lot of members have in regards to DLC.
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